Chatting with Slade Grayson, supervillain novelist

by Mike Rhode

Slade Grayson was one of the prose novelists scattered through the exhibit floor at Awesome Con last month. We chatted briefly at the end of Sunday about comic books and his superhero novel, Kill Your Heroes. I bought a copy, and really enjoyed it. I recommend it, and the following interview, to people who like their superheroes in prose.

How do you do it? Longhand, typing, dictation or a combination?

My process used to be to write longhand, then type it up and edit as a I go. I wrote my first two novels that way. Now, I tend to just type it as I go and edit later. Handwriting it first is hard; the words tend to come faster than my hand can move. And there's always that point where later, I'm struggling to decipher my handwriting. Better to just type it.

When (within a decade is fine) and where were you born?

Jersey City, New Jersey, in the year of our Lord, 1965.

Why are you around DC now? What neighborhood or area do you live in?

I live in Gaithersburg, Maryland. Many years ago, I lived in Colorado. I met someone online and we entered into a relationship. She lived in MD. I flew out to see her. She flew out to see me. We went back and forth like that until it became obvious one of us should move before we went bankrupt from spending all of our money on airfare. It was easier for me to move, so I came out here. Unfortunately, the relationship didn't last, but I have a son now, so... No regrets.

What is your training and/or education in novel writing?

A hodgepodge of creative writing classes, English and literature courses, and working as a freelance journalist many years ago, which taught me about how to get ideas across in a very small amount of space. And lots and lots of reading from a very young age.

What type of writing about comics do you do?

Not much, these days. Years ago, I would write reviews of comic books for an online site. But then they wanted clickbait style stuff, like "Top 5" lists, and that wasn't something that interested me.  

Who are your influences?

My top 5, in no particular order: Lucius Shepard, Alan Moore, Elmore Leonard, Shirley Jackson, and Richard Matheson. To a lesser extent, Harlan Ellison, Raymond Chandler, and Robert E. Howard. The first five taught me about story, dialogue, and plot structure, as well as writing voice. The last three taught me stories can have an energy to them that practically crackles off the page if you do it right.

If you could, what in your career would you do-over or change?

This is a weird one, but... I had the opportunity to go to film school when I was much younger, and for various reasons, I passed on it. At the time, I told myself it was the right decision because I knew I wanted to be a writer more than a filmmaker. But now I wish I had done it. Maybe I wouldn't have become a successful director, but it would've gotten me experience in screenwriting and possibly working in that field. I have ideas now for movies and TV series, and of course the daydream that one of my novels might get adapted into a film or series. If I had pursued it, I could have made contacts in the film and TV world that could help me get my foot in the door with some of the ideas I have. Or, who knows? Maybe I would have become a successful director and I'd be bringing my ideas to life on film rather than in prose form.

What work are you best-known for?

I'm best known for my last novel, Kill Your Heroes. It's been my most successful book, so far.

What work are you most proud of?

This is a tough one. I'm very proud of Kill Your Heroes. I really wrote that book primarily for myself. The whole time I was writing it, there was a voice in my head that kept saying, "No one's going to get this. You're wasting your time. This book is going to come out and flop immediately." I thought this partially because a few years ago, after my book Autumn Moon was accepted by a publisher, he asked me about possibly writing a follow-up to that (which I did), but also wanted more horror stories in general. I pitched him a superhero horror story and he said, "Superheroes don't sell," and wanted me to change my pitch and make it just a horror story (I respectfully declined).

This was at the height of the MCU, so I was surprised he said that, but he was saying superhero movies sell, but superhero books don't. Well...he was wrong! There's a large community of readers out there that love superhero novels.

But if we're talking about "most proud of," it would have to be Autumn Moon. It's a huge cast and many subplots, and I worked hard to tie them all together. I think it's not only a really good werewolf book, but just a good book in general. It surprises me still that it's not my most successful novel. But I think there's not enough horror in it for the horror crowd, and too many werewolves for the literary crowd.

And now, some questions specific to your book, Kill Your Heroes:

You're a fiction writer, and you've turned to writing about superheroes. Can you describe that novel for us?

Kill Your Heroes is about womanizer named Eddie, who's had everything handed to him in life and never had to work for anything, decides to become a supervillain in order to attain fame. Eddie's plan is that he'll pull off some high profile, flashy crimes, tangle with the Dark Revenger, and eventually get caught (as all supervillains usually do). He figures he'll do a short sentence at a minimum security prison, write a tell-all book, and make the talk show rounds after his release.

Eddie isn't an evil person. He's just shallow and narcissistic.

One day, things take a horrible turn and the Dark Revenger is dead. It's Eddie's fault (for reasons I'd rather not spoil). Instead of owning up to it, Eddie decides to take The Dark Revenger's place. He could probably get away with it, but the world's A-List team of superheroes come to the Dark Revenger for help. Now Eddie has to keep the deception going, but it's difficult for a guy used to running his mouth and trying to charm women to play a stoic, serious superhero. Also, there's a murder mystery, and an even bigger mystery behind that, and although the Dark Revenger is known for his detective skills, Eddie's never used his brain for anything other than "How cool do I look?"

Kill Your Heroes is multilayered and has something for everyone: Several central mysteries, plenty of action, and some comedic moments of Eddie attempting (not very well) to keep the deception going. At its heart, though, it's a character arc and transformation, as Eddie grows and develops depth as a person...by pretending to be someone he isn't.

Is this the only superhero novel you've written?

So far.

Are you going to write more in this universe?

I have a follow up in the works.

How did you decide on the Dark Revenger character's powers, motivations, and backstory? He appears to be based on a grim and gritty Batman.

Many years ago, I had a group of friends who were always trying to get me involved in playing Dungeons & Dragons. But I'm not much of a fantasy fan. Magic is okay, but if there's a dragon involved or elves, my eyes tend to glaze over. They knew I was a comic fan, so they suggested Mutants & Masterminds, a superhero role-playing game. This same group of friends used to debate me over who was/is the best superhero. My pick was always Batman. Given enough prep time, I would argue, Batman could defeat anyone. This would spark some lively, but good-natured, disagreements.

I should clarify that my Batman, the one I grew up reading, was the Denny O'Neil / Neal Adams one, and later, Steve Englehart / Marshall Rogers. When I think of Batman, it's the globe-trotting master detective who solved crimes with his intellect, stuck to the shadows, and only used hand-to-hand combat when absolutely necessary. A ninja Sherlock Holmes. I'm not fond of the current versions that have him encased in a bullet-proof costume, walking into a hail of gunfire, and rage-beating people bloody with his fists. Anyway...

We all designed superheroes based on our favorites. There was a Spider-Man-type hero, an Iron Man-type, a Superman-type, and mine, a Batman-type I called "The Dark Avenger." (This was before the MCU made the Avengers household names. Back then, only comic book fans knew about them.) I was going to show my friends that my Batman-type hero could keep up with their characters who had superpowers. Problem was, I had trouble role-playing a serious character. I had a tendency to crack jokes and be snarky, something a "grim and gritty" superhero wouldn't do. That's how the character developed:

Why would a jokey guy, someone brimming with personality, want to be a dark, humorless superhero? Well, maybe he didn't start that way. Maybe he was pretending to be that person. Maybe he accidentally killed the superhero and now he's pretending to be him to cover it up.

And the story fell into place from there. The Dark Avenger became The Dark Revenger to avoid a lawsuit from Marvel, and the rest of the plot developed as I worked out "what if?" and "wouldn't it be cool if?" scenarios in my head.

Was it difficult to come up with a full set of characters?

Not really. Some came fully formed into my head as I worked out the story, while others developed from bits and pieces as I started writing. Eddie's best friend, Blue Howler, came from just the name. It popped in my head one day, and the rest was from asking myself questions:

Why's he called Blue Howler? Obviously, he must be blue, and he must have some vocal superpower. What's his costume? Maybe he doesn't wear one. If you have blue skin and hair, you don't really need a costume. Maybe he wears jeans and scuffed engineer boots because he comes from a working-class background. So, how'd he become blue and gain superpowers? What if he volunteered to be experimented on to get extra cash and this is what happened to him. Etc.

Lot of the characters came from just imagining a look or a set of powers, or thinking, "Okay, I need a big bad here for them to go up against. What would be cool if it came crashing through the wall right now?"

The villains seem loosely based on Spider-Man's rogue gallery, while the heroes seem to reflect the Justice League. Is this accurate?

I don't really see it that way. I mean, I get that if a character shows up with electricity-based powers, some readers will automatically link him to Electro from Spider-Man. But really, it's just archetypes. Yes, you could make the comparison of the Dark Revenger, Court Jester, and the Puzzler and draw a line to Batman, Joker, and the Riddler. But outside of the archetype, they're completely different. Dark Revenger is no more Batman than Moon Knight is. There are similarities - and sure, I'd be lying if I said Batman and his arch-villains weren't an inspiration. But I think it's more like the way the Seven in "The Boys" was inspired by the Justice League, or how Alan Moore wanted to use the Charlton characters for Watchmen, but when DC told him he couldn't, he made up similar characters to use instead. You could look at Homelander from "The Boys" or Omni-Man from "Invincible" and see there's a similarity to Superman. But there are many more differences than similarities. Same thing for the Watchmen characters.

I guess I'm a little defensive about the subject because I read a review where someone said the characters were a "barely repainted Justice League." I just thought: Wow, that was really dismissive of everything I did. Imagine if someone first read the Justice League and was like, "Huh. So barely repainted Greek gods." Or if when Batman first came out, some reader said, "So this is just the pulp character, the Spider, crossed with Zorro and a little bit of the Shadow." Or going up to George Lucas and saying, "So you took the movie 'High Fortress' and basically set it in outer space."

Okay, that last one isn't far off the mark. But still...

I think with superheroes, there are archetypes that go back to the old pulp characters, and even farther back into mythology. We, as creators, try to take what's been built before and add to it, or bring a new twist to it. On the one hand, with Kill Your Heroes, I was trying to tell an entertaining story. On the other, I was writing a love letter to comic books in general, especially the ones I grew up reading. You know, back when they were fun.

Your dedication of the book contains a whole list of creators, and specifically mentions Gerry Conway and the last panel of Amazing Spider-Man #144. Can you tell us why that made you become a writer? Can you say anything about the others you mentioned? It looks like you were a 1970s-1980s comic book reader.

Yep! Started reading comics in the 70s. Marvel was my thing: Claremont/Cockrum on X-Men, and then Claremont/Byrne. Bill Mantlo and Michael Golden on Micronauts. Steve Englehart's Captain America stories and his Avengers run. Stern and Byrne on Cap. Starlin on Captain Marvel. Anything with Spider-Man in it (Amazing, Spectacular, Team-Up). The whole run up to "Demon in a Bottle" in Iron Man. They call the 70s the Bronze Age, but that was my Golden Age for comics. I read very little DC Comics. Pretty much just Batman stuff, Justice League (because Batman was in it), and Legion of Superheroes because I thought it was a cool concept.

Things changed in the 80s and I started following more DC titles. DC stepped up their game and began bringing Marvel creators over, as well as imports like Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman, and Grant Morrison. I think by the late 80s, I was reading more DC titles than Marvel, and was following a bunch of independents like First Comics and Dark Horse.

I had to quit in the 90s, however. Rising costs and a dip in the quality of stories. Everything became about the artwork and the cool cover, and writing became all event-driven stories. "Let's kill Superman!" "Let's cripple Batman!" Which is fine if that's what you're going to build from, but everyone knows in comics that nothing is permanent, and everything will eventually return to the status quo.

I tried to come back a bit over the years, but man, the prices are just too crazy now for comics. And everything is written for trade collection, so why not wait for that and get the complete story? And cheaper than if you had picked up the individual issues. But also...

There's a sense of sameness now. At the risk of sounding like a grumpy old dude: How many times are writers going to rehash the same stories? I keep seeing variations on Watchmen, "Days of Future Past" (from X-Men), Secret Wars, and Death of / Return of stories done over and over again. Yes, I realize there's a lot of good stuff out there. As I said, I still pick up trade collections now and then. Just giving reasons why I don't read more comics these days than the occasional trade collection. Beyond that, the characters I grew up reading have been broken down, dissected, and rebuilt so much over the years, they seem alien to me now.

Getting back to your question about how Amazing Spider-Man #144 made me want to become a writer:

When I was a kid, the death of Gwen Stacy was a huge moment in comics. It happened "on screen" so we (the reader) knew it wasn't a trick. It shaped his life and was an event that affected the tone of the comics for the next several years. So just when it seemed like Peter Parker was getting his life back on track, had come to terms with his grief, and was going to move on with a relationship with Mary Jane Watson, he opens his apartment door and Gwen Stacy is standing there. That was the last panel of that issue.

I was like, "Wait, what?! How is that possible? We saw her die!" I was 8 at the time. I realized, too, that I would have to wait 30 days for the next issue.

I thought I was going to go crazy trying to figure out A) how it was possible Gwen was alive; and B) how was that going to affect Peter's life. Up until that point, I didn't pay much attention to who wrote the comics. Didn't matter if it was Stan Lee or Roy Thomas or anyone else. They were all interchangeable to me. But I remember looking at the credit box and seeing Gerry Conway's name and thinking, "He wrote this. He made it so I really, really want to know what happens next. This person. Gerry Conway" If there had been a phone number next to his name, I probably would've called him and asked, "How is Gwen alive?!"

After that, I started paying attention to the writers' names. I realized some writers crafted stories that kept me on the edge of my seat more so than other writers. And some writers, when paired with just the right artist, could craft a classic story in a handful of pages (e.g. Archie Goodwin and Walt Simonson's Manhunter back-up series for DC).

The thing that Gerry Conway did for me was, he made me realize that was what I wanted to do. I wanted to make someone else feel the way I felt when I got to the last page of that issue. That feeling of, "Oh, man, I HAVE to know what's going to happen next."

How did you find the cover creator? Is there anything you can say about the process of the cover's design?

Jake Caleb at jcalebdesign.com had done the covers for my friend, Nick DeWolf's books, and I was a fan of his work. He has a great style, and his covers don't have a sameness to them that I see elsewhere. In fact, if you were to look at Nick's books side-by-side, all of them are eye-catching, but they're all also different. I liked that, and I liked that Jake doesn't automatically go for the "guy with a gun" or "girl with a sword" pose. He experiments and uses different colors... I think his stuff is beautiful and has a uniqueness to it.

I wanted the cover to be colorful and eye-catching, and I thought the main characters should be featured so readers could get an idea that this is a superhero story. I described the characters, using descriptions from the novel itself and sent it to him. Jake ran with it and pretty much came up with spot-on visuals. I asked him to tweak a little bit here and there, but really, it was minor stuff. Jake is a master at his craft.

SPOILER! I was trying to avoid spoilers and it was tough because you put so many twists in. I'm not completely sure the forgotten memories worked at the very end, if I may say so, but it did complete the Hero's Journey he was on. At the end, the hero wins, but at the cost of having his heroism forgotten by the world via some scientific memory altering from space, shall we say. 

 Endings are a tricky thing. It should feel open ended in a way, but also should give a definite feeling of a stopping point. Much of the story changed as I was writing it, as most of my novels do. But I always knew what the first line would be (“I’m the Dark Revenger”) and the last line (“You’re the Dark Revenger”). And I knew Eddie would sacrifice the fame and fortune he craved in order to defeat the bad guy. There was a final conversation I cut between Eddie and Master Mind, where Master Mind explains that he always has plans within plans, and he really thought Eddie would be too shallow to give up being an A-Lister. He would also say that although he never bluffs, he does lie, which would let the reader know that maybe everything wasn’t permanent. But the conversation felt tacked on, like Harrison Ford narrating Blade Runner. And I hate when authors spoon feed the readers.

What would you like to do or work on in the future?

I'd like to quit my day job and write full time. I've got a bunch of stories and characters bouncing around inside my head. If we're talking "wave a magic wand and do whatever you'd like," well, I'd like to develop a TV show. Either something based on one of my books, or something original.

I'd also like to pitch some stuff to Marvel Comics. I have some ideas for a few of their Bronze Age characters they're not doing anything with at the moment. I pitched to DC a long time ago and was making some headway with an editor, but he moved on. I don't currently know anyone at Marvel, but if anyone is reading this and knows someone that knows someone... Hey, give me a call.

What do you do when you're in a rut or have writer's block?

Jump ahead to a scene later in the book. I find that if I get stuck in a particular scene and don't know how to move forward, I usually have an idea for a scene later in the story, so I jump to that and work on it. Usually that helps free up the blockage from the previous part and I can go back and finish it. I usually begin in a linear fashion, but eventually I'll jump ahead to scenes later in the book if I get stuck somewhere. It helps keep the momentum going.

What do you think will be the future of your field?

Unfortunately, AI. It's already making strides in cover art and now Amazon is using AI as a way for writers to generate their own audiobooks. I figure eventually readers will be able to make their own books using AI. There'll be a way they can type in what characters they want, the type of story, and the tone, and it will pop out a book. Probably not a great book or even a really good book, but a book, nonetheless.

What local cons do you attend? The Small Press Expo, Awesome Con, or others? Any comments about attending them?

I did the Gaithersburg Book Festival one year and the Kensington Book Festival. I had attended Awesome Con once as a panelist. The following year, I had a table with two writer friends. This was pre-pandemic. And then I had a table all to myself this year (2024) at Awesome Con. The two local book festivals are great if you're a booklover and want to browse an eclectic sampling of different categories of books. As a vendor, however, they were tough crowds to sell to.

Awesome Con is a mixed bag. I definitely had a better experience years ago. This year, it seemed like prices were much higher on everything and people were reluctant to spend money. It was fun to connect with fans and readers, but three days can be a bit of a slog. And the prices they were charging at the convention center for stuff ($5.00 for a bottle of water; $16 for four chicken tenders and fries) seemed outrageously high. Hard to sell books when people are spending hundreds on admission, parking, and food for the day.

What comic books do you read regularly or recommend? Do you have a local store?

I don't read monthly comics anymore. I tend to look for the collected trades when they're on sale, usually through Amazon or eBay. Right now, I'm on an Ed Brubaker kick. Just picked up the Sleeper Omnibus for a good price. Loved his Incognito series. Ed, if you're reading this. I really, really need a volume 3 of Incognito. I can't believe you ended the series on a cliffhanger like that. I thought there was more coming, but it's been over a decade now. Doesn't look like you're going to continue the story. How about licensing the characters to me and I'll finish the story. What do you think?

What's your favorite thing about DC?

Batman. Oh, wait, you mean the city, not the comic company.

The restaurants. The parks. The public transportation.

Least favorite?

The traffic and the over-priced real estate.

How about a favorite local restaurant?

The GF and I like to go to the King Street Oyster Bar in Potomac. Great food. Of course, whenever I recommend a place, it kind of jinxes the whole thing and the quality slips. Don't let me down, King Street!

My favorite place for sandwiches is Twinbrook Deli in Rockville, and Bethesda Bagels for, you know, bagels.

Do you have a website or blog?

My publisher website is: http://vintagecitypublishing.com/ And I have an Amazon Author page: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Slade-Grayson/author/B006F49WO0?

I don't have a personal website anymore. Too much work to keep it from being hacked or spammed. And I'm not on social media anymore because I got tired of the constant drama.

How has the COVID-19 outbreak affected you, personally and professionally?

As someone who doesn't like to go out and has a tiny circle of friends and family, it didn't affect me much, other than I learned to do my grocery shopping really early in the morning and buy toilet paper by the case. The hardest part was trying to make it comfortable for my son. He likes school and is very social by nature. It was hard keeping him home for a year and seeing him miss out on a lot of social activities. But it's behind us now and he's doing great.

A Chat with Nick Davis, a DC-adjacent cartoonist

Awesome Con photo by Rhode

by Mike Rhode

I was walking around Awesome Con with another local comics fan who wanted to check out the children's section. Since I know that some of the best cartoonists are making comics for children, and local cartoonists John Gallagher, Kata Kane, and Carolyn Belefski set up there, I was glad to follow along. With a British accent, Nick Davis introduced himself as DC-adjacent which was enough to get him a ComicsDC interview offer right there (we also do visiting cartoonists, so heck, anyone can appear here). Nick sent a very thoughtful set of answers to our standard questions.

What type of comic work or cartooning do you do?

I write and self-publish fantasy adventure stories, featuring the Night Guardians, cuddly toys and kids who protect you from the monsters under the bed, and their master the Boogeyman. The stories are fantasy adventures, much in the same vein as the Amulet, or Wings of Fire and I consider them to be all ages adventures, written to appeal to kids and adults alike.

And if you are a fan of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, especially their first appearance, I publish a series of books called Let’s Hunt Montas! Which is more cartoony violent, a lot like Rick and Morty, set in the same fantasy world as the Night Guardians.

How do you do it? Traditional pen and ink, computer or a combination?

Veronica Smith, the artist I work with on the Night Guardian adventures, works the layouts in pencil and then the final art in Manga Studio. The Let's Hunt Monstas! comic, that I exclusively write and draw, is drawn completely in Procreate.

There is a movement that digital art isn’t real art in the comic book community, but you don’t get to draw on these tablet programs without putting in the hours using traditional pen and ink methods. The skills transfer. You can’t cheat your way to good storytelling art, you have to put the hours in.

When (within a decade is fine) and where were you born?

I’m generation X, the largely forgotten generation, the one that has to get things done, because we were left to it. I was born in the early 70’s in a small English market town called Melton Mowbray.

Why are you comics-adjacent to Washington now?  What  area do you live in?

I work in DC for a health care non-profit that overseers medical accreditation, when I am not in DC (which is a lot). I live in PA, right in the middle of Amish country.

What is your training and/or education in cartooning?

None.

I am trained graphic designer, so I have art courses that are attached to that, you know form, life drawing, color theory, but I received no formal training in comic book storytelling. While schools like that do exist, you can only learn from reading comics and doing it yourself.

Who are your influences?

The biggest is the King himself, Jack Kirby, I used to dislike it, then I started telling comic book stories and the sheer storytelling power of his work, the mastery of his panel storytelling is the pinnacle. 

I grew up in the UK reading the Beano, 2000AD, Warlord, Battle, so I have a very heavy black and white influence. The book that really blew my mind was the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, it was unlike anything I ever saw before, and those turtle boys captured lightning in a bottle. 

So, I guess you can add Eastman and Laird to my influences too.

If you could, what in your career would you do-over or change? Or rather, how are you hoping your career will develop?

You learn more from your mistakes, than you do from your successes. I try not to look back at things I do, as that isn’t the direction I am going in. Learn what works, apply it to future work and keep moving forward.

My career in cartooning? I would love it to develop to the point where I don’t have to work a day job and can live making comics. It’s an independent dream, few of us actually achieve it. Personally I would love to have the success the turtle boys had, but that was very much a time and place thing.

At the moment my goal is to keep telling good stories and having readers come back wanting more. So far, I’ve been mostly successful in that area.

What work are you best-known for?

The Night Guardians - Awakenings graphic novel was a work of a couple of years to get done and told one of my longest stories about four cuddly toys who have to journey into the realm of the Boogeyman to save their child. It hit all the themes I wanted it to, about courage, friendship and hope, and told a fun fantasy adventure in the dark fantasy voice (with a touch of whimsy) that I wanted it too. 

It was also my first real dive into the world of comic book storytelling and I am immensely proud how it came out.

What would you like to do or work on in the future?

I am working on two separate books at the moment, with my artist I am working on Dream Warriors, the tale of two children and their teddy bear spirit guide, who find themselves becoming the defender of dreams. And my Let’s Hunt Montas! Book, that allows me to play fast and loose with my Night Guardians world and inject some Tom & Jerry style humor into things. I guess LHM is very much my safety valve and allows me to release more of my 2000AD ID.

What do you do when you're in a rut or have writer's block?

There is no secret to writing, except to write.

Accept whatever your first write is a pile of poop, once you do that, let the words flow until whatever story inside you is out. Then go back and turn it into something that actually makes sense. Remember it is your world, you control everything, and do not have to kowtow to realism. Let yourself go wild.

The biggest issue I have found with folk who want to write is they are scared of what they want to write, that it is silly, that is nonsense. Tell your story, embrace the absurd.

What's the story about the FCBD issue pictured here?

Every year the comic book store that hosts me for Free Comic Book Day, gets a complimentary FCBD book from me that is exclusive to their story. The book, in this case Adventures Ahead, is a compilation of extracts from the opening pages of Let's Hunt Monstas! Dream Warriors and TeamD, It's a fun little comic book that gives the reader an idea about my stories and gives the comic book store, an extra air of exclusivity.

The book will also eventually be available as a digital download via my Comix Well Spring online box store at https://cwsbookstore.com/store/nick/

What do you think will be the future of your field?

That is tough, comics as an industry is largely stagnant, not shrinking, not really growing. You would think after all the superhero movies we would have a new readership. But the simple fact is can you find a comic book that easily?

Manga for example is everywhere, American style comic books are relegated to niche stories, that are mostly uninviting, and the books within tell stories for adults, into the wonder of superheroes and worlds beyond our own that we read as kids.

I fear that my generation is the last one that grew up reading all types of comic books, we simply had no choice because we read what we could get. Now, you can choose what you want to read, and the funny kind of freedom directs you into niches, or silos, and you inherit a fear of trying something new.

Comics are not doomed, they will survive. I think the Manga style is going to dominate in another ten years or so. I hope my stories can keep up and continue to grow.

I like to think the future is bright, but it's hard work if folk don’t recognize your work and the kids they are with want Deadpool.

What local cons do you attend? The Small Press Expo, Awesome Con, or others? Any comments about attending them? I know you were at Awesome Con - how was the show for you?

I just finished Awesome Con, which turned out good for me. I was a little worried at first, but folk came, brought my books and it was worth my time going too.

I would like to attend the Small Press Expo, which is dependent on their lottery system and my next big show is Four State Comic Con in Hagerstown, MD. You can view all my ‘tour’ dates on my website.

What comic books or strips or webcomics do you read regularly or recommend? Do you have a local store?

My local store is Comic World, it's a great comic book store, before that I used to pick up books at Collectors Corner, sadly they are no longer local to me. As for reading, I read all kinds of books. As you can imagine I am a huge turtles fan, and the Last Ronin stuff is a return to form. 

What's your favorite thing about DC?

DC is an interesting city, I love how walkable it is and you can always find something interesting to do, and it is surprisingly free.

Least favorite?

Traffic, really easy to get into the city, really hard to get out of it.

What monument or museum do you like to go to?

There are some amazing, breathtaking monuments in this town. I enjoy the American Art museum and the National Air and Space Museum, because I am a huge plane nerd.

How about a favorite local restaurant?

Gosh… There are so many good restaurants here.  One of my favorites is Sol Mexican, it's very much a hole-in-the- wall place on H street, but has the best Mexican food ever.

Do you have a website or blog?

Certainly do, you can find all my work and learn more about me at altworldstudios.com

How has the COVID-19 outbreak affected you, personally and professionally?

The lockdown hit just as I finished the Night Guardians Awakenings book, I lost an entire year to market and sell the book and I’ve only just started recovering from that. You would think being locked in place would be a boon to a cartoonist, it really wasn’t because I couldn’t tour my work and lost a lot of momentum.

Thank you for this opportunity, cartooning is hard work, it's fun, get good folk around you, to play with and work with and it becomes more than just cranking out a page. Especially when folk start reading your work, everything takes up a life of its own.

Catching up with Alan Jenkins for 1/6 issue #2

by Mike Rhode 

Last year I spoke with Professor Alan Jenkins about 1/6, a serialized comic book about what if Donald Trump had succeeded in stealing the 2020 presidential election via insurrection. I encourage you to read that interview before carrying on here as Alan and I caught up via telephone about issue #2 which came out last month. 

 Mike Rhode:  1/6, issue number two, a double size issue, came out in January. This one's almost completely dedicated to recapping the reality of the events of the 2020 election, and then the insurrection, or riot or whatever happened in DC on January 6th. In our previous interview, you had said that you had hoped to wrap up the entire book by this January. So what happened?

Alan Jenkins:  <laughs> So events continued to unfold. We thought that we had the information we needed to fill this series out, but then came the January 6th House hearings, indictments, Supreme Court arguments, all kinds of real-life events, many of which we thought were too compelling not to include. And so [coauthor] Gan [Golan] and I found ourselves writing, and rewriting, and then eliminating, because at the end of the day, we want this to be a compelling, entertaining story, not, as our artist Will Rosado says, a lawyer's PowerPoint. We crammed a lot in, and then we had to scale some of it back and figure out the most entertaining and informative way to tell this story. A lot of the delay was due to that. And also to the fascinating process of comic book publishing.

Jamal Igle cover

Mike Rhode: <laugh>. Was this originally intended to be a double sized issue, or did it have so much material organically needing to be added to it? Or is it because of the mechanics of comic book publishing?

Alan Jenkins: We always thought that issue two would be more substantial, because we knew from the beginning that whereas issue one is set about nine months after the fictional successful insurrection, issue two was going to jump back to the events leading up to the insurrection and include a lot of real events. It's still historical fiction, but it includes a lot of documented events. And we knew that we were going to need space to tell that story and to also include our characters. So we always knew it was going to be bigger than the first. We didn't know what the exact page number was going to be, but a double issue seemed right to us.

Mike Rhode: Speaking of the true life events that are included, I was wondering about who suggested the varying panel styles for truth, assumptions, and straight fiction. A lot of times this is done in a comic with coloring, but I think it worked extremely well with the panel borders in this instance.

Alan Jenkins: I'm glad that it worked for you. We discussed a lot of different possibilities for distinguishing between these three categories: documented events, purely fictional events, and speculation. The speculation area is where we know that something happened. For example, Cassidy Hutchinson testified about conversations that were had in her presence, but we didn't know precisely who said what, what the room or the setting was. We wanted to be very clear about what we know and don't know, so we had those three categories. We did look at coloring for a while. We thought maybe we would over-saturate the fictional events and under-saturate the real events, but using different shapes of the panels, which was Gan's idea, seemed to work best.

Mike Rhode: When you start looking for it, it's pretty clear, but the story reads very smoothly too. In fact, it's probably one of the best reporting or nonfiction comics I've read recently. You talked a little bit about how much research went into the issue, but realistically I assume that this book had you reading quite a bit of legal documentation and then trying to digest it down for an average reader. Would that be accurate?

Alan Jenkins: We consumed a huge amount of legal information. We spoke with reporters and experts and others. I had two research assistants who helped us in making sure that we got the facts right. It was a hugely time-consuming process. Really interesting, and often very terrifying. To give you an example, we spoke with a wonderful researcher, KatherineStewart, who studies the Christian Nationalist movements. She gave us a lot of information about how they operate in the real world, and how they contributed (in her view) to the insurrection. She actually has a documentary film coming out, based on her book The Power Worshippers, that captures some of what's in her reporting. It was really scary once we started to look at what some of these folks are doing, what they did leading up to the insurrection, but we absolutely wanted to include at least hints of those real events in the book. We spent a lot of time collecting that information.

Mike Rhode: For your young man Travis whose father Clive survives him; the Christian nationalism is shown as they actually talked to a minister about whether or not Trump is really the president. I found that page quite interesting, as the minister was totally ignoring Christian values. <laugh>.

Alan Jenkins: We wanted to depict everyone, all of our characters, with empathy. Our character Clive, who is a MAGA voter and a Christian, was really grappling with what it means for religious leaders on the right to be advocating violence, and to be denying the truth of what we see with our own eyes. That was very much reflective of that research and of some of the conversations that we had with everyday folks.

Rosado art

Mike Rhode: The fictional characters did not get fleshed out as much as they did in the first issue, but I think everybody got a few pages right?

Alan Jenkins: That's right. We wanted to make sure that we were catching up with all of our people, our characters. As you say, we weren't able to give them as much ink in issue two, but for issues three and four, they're going to come roaring back and we're going to see a lot more of all of them and their interactions with each other.

Mike Rhode: What are your projected timelines for three and four?

Alan Jenkins: Ah. <laughs> I'm always loath to predict, but we're hoping to have issue three out around the start of summer and issue four out before election day.

Mike Rhode: Are you hoping to have it compiled before election day?

Alan Jenkins: I would love that, but I think realistically the way the publishing world works, it's going to be difficult to do that with a publisher. We might decide to bundle it ourselves, but I think the way you reach a much larger mass audience is to work with publishers. We'll see what the time frame is on that.

Mike Rhode: I noticed there are some additional artists with this issue...

Moline's Pence

Alan Jenkins: Yes, we brought on some new folks in addition to our core team. I want to shout out Karl Moline, who really filled in a lot. We had more work than Will, our main penciller and inker, was available to do. Karl came in and did some really good work to fill out the book. And we added a number of other folks, mostly because it was a lot of work to do in a relatively short period of time. So we had to build the team.

Mike Rhode: It looks like the book's artwork was divided up between people, because I can see a difference in the penciling. I'm assuming that one person individually penciled some pages and the other person penciled others.

Alan Jenkins: It definitely took a village. Will has really perfected our characters, and so he did most of the work with our characters throughout the book. And Karl has a particular talent for capturing real people. When you look at Vice President Pence, Senator Cruz, and some of these other folks, Karl took those and did a great job of making them, for the most part, instantly recognizable.

Mike Rhode: Anyway, I didn't find the switch in artists to be disruptive. It read smoothly, which doesn't always happen when you switch an artist in the middle of a book.  One of the things that you said back in the first interview was that "Trump doesn't get much ink. The book is in part about Trumpism and the transcendent threats to democracy and equal dignity that he represents. But, if Trump went away tomorrow, those forces would still exist. That's an important theme of the book." That appears less true in the current issue. I think Trump, we could argue, is one of the two major characters in this issue. Although, surrounded by all his sycophants, maybe he's not in there as much as I thought he was. Anyway, this one focused more on Trump. How did you feel about that <laughs>?

Alan Jenkins: This is historical fiction, but part of our goal was to establish a record of what happened, especially when you have a lot of people trying to deny the truth of what happened or mischaracterize it. We wanted to convey that the insurrection actually had three parts, and we have a diagram in the back indicating the three parts, but we also have to tell the story. So one part was absolutely the violence, and that was the most shocking. It also is the most visually striking.  But there was also the strong-arming of officials -- state and local officials, and Mike Pence, the vice president at the time. [Third,] there was the sending of fake electors to states, which is not visually interesting, but absolutely a crucial part of the plan to overturn our democracy. We wanted to explain those elements in ways that were visually interesting and entertaining. And yeah, Trump was very much at the center of that. We didn't want to give him more ink than we thought his role deserved in part, as I said last time, because we think Trump hasn't gone away, but even if he went away tomorrow, we would still be left with his legacy. We didn't want to make it all about him, but he was at the center of what happened.

Mike Rhode: I think you did a pretty good job, as opposed to our current mass media who continues to treat him as if he should be a legitimate candidate. Going slightly off topic here, but do you have any feelings about whether or not he should be on the ballot? <laugh>

Alan Jenkins: You may have seen that in issue two, we have a petition that readers can scan and sign to remove all Insurrectionists from the ballot.

Mike Rhode: The page that's labeled 'Make your voice heard.'

Alan Jenkins: Right, exactly. Pursuant to the Constitution, to section three of the 14th Amendment. My own view, and I teach the 14th Amendment, is that Trump clearly engaged in an insurrection after swearing an oath, and I believe that he's covered by that provision of the 14th Amendment. But the case is currently, as we speak, before the U.S. Supreme Court, and they had oral arguments on February 8th and expressed some skepticism about the idea that he can be barred, at least by the state of Colorado, from running. So we'll know. We might not know by the time this interview is out, but we will know this winter what the Supreme Court thinks the Constitution says, and their word goes, while mine doesn't.

Mike Rhode: I don't quite understand because it's not like [a candidate] can [automatically] be on the ballot of every state. Normally you have to get a certain amount of signatures, and then the state has to decide that to put you on the ballot. So I'm not quite sure why this suddenly became a federalized issue, just like Bush v Gore [where the Constitutional mechanism of using the House of Representatives to settle the issue was superseded]. I don't quite understand why he suddenly has the absolute right to be on the ballot in states.

Alan Jenkins: We knew it would get to the Supreme Court eventually, because at the end of the day the secretaries of state and the state courts are interpreting the federal constitution. So however it turned out there would be the ability to seek review by the U.S. Supreme Court of how the Constitution is interpreted. It would've been shocking if they had declined to take up this case. I think an interesting thing, at least for us law geeks, is that typically this very conservative Supreme Court believes strongly in states' rights. The states have a very important role in administering elections under our constitutional system. And now, at least in oral argument, we heard Justices say essentially the opposite, which is, "how can you allow one state to assume the power to enforce the 14th Amendment?" So it was fascinating, making strange bedfellows for sure. We'll see what they decide.

Mike Rhode: Getting back into your comic itself, are you at a point of still being able to cover your costs for the book? I know you had a Kickstarter [to start it]. Are you planning on another Kickstarter to finish it?

Alan Jenkins: We probably will do another Kickstarter. We've been fortunate to have been able to raise a lot of money, which means in turn, relatively speaking for the comic book world, we've been able to hire top-notch artists and produce a quality book. I'm well aware there are a lot of amazing creators who are not able to put together the resources to do that, and unfortunately the end product suffers. We've been fortunate there. We almost certainly will do another Kickstarter to finish up the series and also to make sure we get it out, because it's [also] an infrastructure of distributing comic books, which costs money. We've been very fortunate to have an amazing printer and distributor, Sun Print Solutions in Utah. They're a union printer, which was very important to us, and they’ve just been fantastic. Not only in printing the book, but in helping us to get it out into the world. We’ll be going back to them and they’ve gotta get paid, so we’ll, we’ll be raising some more money.

Mike Rhode: You spoke about the difficulties in distribution and I imagine you’re still looking for mechanisms to get it into comic bookstores. Since the distribution market in American comics is continuing to shatter, have you’ve found a distributor yet?

Alan Jenkins: No.  We’ve sold thousands of copies of issue one, overwhelmingly through Amazon and our Shopify site, which is https://onesixcomicsstore.com. We have reached some comic bookstores that are selling the series largely through shoe leather—literally walking to stores and showing them the book, letting them see that it's a quality book, both in terms of the art and storytelling and in terms of the quality of production. Most of the places where we've handed them a sample and said, "Hey, do you want to sell some of these?" they've said yes.  But that can't be our distribution model. We can't be [going] everywhere. And many of the places where we most want to sell the book through stores are in the Midwest and the South. We are reaching those places through Amazon and Shopify, but we really want to also reach those people who just come into the comic bookstore looking for something interesting and new and see our book. Not because they're interested in the insurrection per se, but because they want a good story. That [audience] we have not yet been able to crack via stores.

Martinbrough variant

Mike Rhode: Another part of the comic book market that you've advertised in both issues is variant covers [on of which is by local cartoonist Shawn Martinbrough]. Are those available yet?

Alan Jenkins: The variant cover for issue one is available, and we're making them mostly available through stores at this point because we want to make sure we're limiting supply. The variant cover for issue number two is not yet done, but will be a very familiar riff on a popular series when people see it.

Mike Rhode: Just to confirm, the varying covers are in fact not available on shop on your Shopify site?

Alan Jenkins: That's correct.

Mike Rhode: Alright, because that of course is a great way to make money off comic fans. I know you're a comic fan and I personally would give you guys more money by buying the varying covers just because I believe in the project.

Alan Jenkins: I won't bore you with the details of setting up new sales channels, but we have to figure out when it's the right time to do that.

Mike Rhode: Is there anything that I have not asked you that we should talk about?

Alan Jenkins: I would just say that this is the moment for this story, and we really want to engage as many people as we can. I hope your readers will consider reaching out to their comic book store to say, "Hey, we wish you would order this. " We are definitely marketing, both email and mail, to comic bookstores. We are also making hundreds of free copies available, as we did last time with issue one, to public libraries, to school libraries, to colleges and universities, to pro-democracy organizations, and that's an important part of this effort. That's, in part, the reason we raised outside money -- so that we could get the story out to people who might not otherwise have the resources, or even the access, to purchase it. We want it to be in their hands for free. That's an important part of our mission as well.

Mike Rhode: Speaking of freebies, did you send it to members of Congress again with the second issue?

Alan Jenkins: Yes, we did. We sent it to all of the election deniers in Congress, of which there are over 150, and also sent it to some of the constitutional heroes from 1/6 in Congress in both parties.

Mike Rhode: Did you hear back from anybody this time?

Alan Jenkins: No, haven't heard. I met at, San Diego Comic-Con, Robert Garcia a congressman who actually took the oath of office on [the Library of Congress'] copy of Action Comics number one. He expressed interest, so we'll see whether there's something we can cook up with him.

Mike Rhode: Last time we talked about the comic's African-American component, but it's much less present this time, since the Republican MAGA are a largely white phenomena, so I'll just hold that question until we talk about issue three.

1/6 #1-2 are available now at https://onesixcomicsstore.com/

Meet a Local Cartoonist: A Chat with Aayesha Ejaz

 by Mike Rhode

This year's DC Zinefest at the MLK Library had a handful of cartoonists tabling. One of them is Aayesha Ejaz, new to the DMV area. Her self-titled graphic autobiography is about growing up in India in an observant Muslim family, not fitting in, and succumbing to depression before overcoming it and moving to America. I recommend it highly, as well as her food-focused zines.

What type of comic work or cartooning do you do?

I mostly draw autobiographical comics to make things digestible and comforting for myself, and
the viewer. I share mundane things (for instance, how to make a makeshift pizza as a broke
college student!) in an endearing manner with humility and humor.

How do you do it? Traditional pen and ink, computer or a combination?

I work traditionally—I use a mechanical pencil for sketching, and then move to pens for inking. I  generally use a Pentel Fude Touch Sign pen for outlines, Paper Mate Flair Felt Tip pen for lettering and a Pentel brush pen for filling in. I prefer to color digitally on Procreate. Then I move to Photoshop for editing and InDesign for layouting.

When (within a decade is fine) and where were you born?

I was born in 1998 in New Delhi, India.

Why are you in Washington now? What neighborhood or area do you live in?

I recently moved for work from St. Louis to Fredericksburg—one small city to another!

What is your training and/or education in cartooning?

This is a long story! I did my undergrad from the Indian Institute of Art and Design in Communication  Design—a mix of graphic design, UI/UX, animation, etc. The program allowed me to test my waters. Towards the end of my undergrad, I realized that the projects that I enjoyed the most involved illustration and storytelling.

During my final semester, my brother shared with me about a comic making workshop with Gabrielle Bell. The online workshop helped me learn the A-Z of comics—terms like “emanata” and “pacing” and allowed me to create characters even if they were just stick figures. I was amazed by how much one panel could encapsulate and how relatable everyone's personal narratives were.

I would often struggle with translating thumbnails onto a bigger page for a picture book, but with panels, things didn’t seem that intimidating. So after the workshop, I decided to enroll myself in grad school for illustration. I was admitted into the MFA Illustration and Visual Culture program at Washington University in St. Louis. The program focused on both writing and creating, whether it was comics, picture books, editorial illustrations or infographics.

Who are your influences?

I devoured the entire Captain Underpants series as a kid which validated my quirky sense of humor. I love Lucy Knisley, Malaka Gharib, and Liz Prince—I enjoy the humanized nature of their style and the infographics in their storytelling always makes things more interesting. I’m always in awe of Raina Telgemier’s books as well. Her work is the warm hug my younger self needed :)

What work are you best-known for?

My Makeshift Pizza comic/infographic! All thanks to Dan Zettwoch’s mentorship, and my grad school cohort for trying the recipe the weekend after the class critique.

What work are you most proud of?

The graphic memoir that I wrote and illustrated for my MFA thesis. Never thought I’d be able to share my thoughts and feelings with brevity (in a long-form comic book).

What would you like to do or work on in the future?

I definitely see myself illustrating more stories. I’d also like to explore surface design more—making prints, products and patterns with animals and faces to give my sketchbook doodles a home.

What do you do when you're in a rut or have writer's block?

I keep trying—I keep writing, drawing or looking at similar stuff that already exists. I also share whatever I have with a friend or family member. Going for a walk and changing my environment also helps.

What local cons do you attend? The Small Press Expo, Awesome Con, or others? Any
comments about attending them?

Coming from Missouri, I’ve tabled at KC Zine Con, Cherokee Print Bazaar, SLICE and DC Zinefest. Tabling definitely gives one an idea about what sells, but the crowd has been different in all these places… I’m generally quite quiet at these events, but I’ve recently started interacting
with whoever stops by my table. 

What comic books do you read regularly or recommend? Do you have a local store?

I used to get my comics from Betty's Books (The best comic bookstore I’ve been to in the US so far) or the St. Louis Public Library. The summer of 2023 was my comics summer. Here are some of my favorites:  Blancaflor, The Hero with Secret Powers: A Folktale from Latin America by Nadja Spiegelman and Sergio García Sánchez; Swim Team by Johnnie Christmas; Snapdragon by Kat Leyh; In Limbo by Deb JJ Lee; Shubeik Lubeik by Deena Mohamed; Hey Kiddo by Jarrett J. Krosoczka; and Iranian Love Stories by Jane Deuxard.

What's your favorite thing about DC?

I’ve been here many times to visit my brother. I’ve always liked DC for its public transit, cleanliness and museums. And all the ice cream parlors, especially Pitango!

El Burro Loco from At The Edge of My Comfort Zone

 

How about a favorite local restaurant?

Pupatella!

Do you have a website or blog?

Yes! It’s www.eyeshacreates.com

How has the COVID-19 outbreak affected you, personally and professionally?

I think COVID-19 strengthened my belief in drawing as a career option and creating for the greater good of humanity.